Questionable Activity on BitFire Mining Pool


#1

Devs-

Can someone reach out to me to help clarify some payments that were sent from the Bitfire mining pool to a mystery miner please? There was recently a payment sent out by the pool, and when I questioned the pool operator I was stripped of my posting rights to his pool chat and kicked off the server.

This is the transaction in question:

http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/ba0ff8d0b3088aa003eed39d9740a47bf60c19e2f926e5dce6d2a73b43968f01

Given the recent controversy started by the pool operator on this board, I would like to talk to someone on the team since there isn’t a block explorer that lets one review a wallet, especially since one of the payments was sent to a Zen team member that I was told mines on his pool.

My hope is that this is a big misunderstanding and that there is a logical explanation for it. However I’m not sure what to think since the pool operator has removed and banned me from his server for questioning the recent transaction vs doing research to explain the above transaction.

Any help is greatly appreciated!


#2

I can attest to this info as i was booted as well for asking questions


#3

@thesmokingman you’ve been removed from Discord because of toxic behavior and attempting (with success) to talk away other miners from the mining pool.

Next to that the following explanation has been given:

What happened is that one of the miners switched jobs faster then the others and was the only one with shares on that block. Because there is time is involved as a measurement per round others din’t had the reward from that block because only one miner has submitted shares to it. One of the blocks orphaned (the first one) and the 2nd block din’t which made it such a short round and currently we’re at 6 or 7 orphaned blocks. The total amount of shares for that second block was: 4.81 Shares which caused other miners not being able to provide shares in time.

Also what has been said, there are a several people looking into it and requires time and understanding to see what was going on during that period of time. As on my end I have not logged into the server as of Wednesday last week. The system & daemon logs are synchronized with RSYNC towards my network drive at home and I am plowing through it next to my real life activities.

I’ve already forwarded the question towards @finpunk and @hellcatz to look into it. Would be great if @aayanl looks in to it as well and bring up their findings in here as well.


#4

@Ghost - My last message to you before you banned me stated that I hoped this was a big misunderstanding and how I was waiting to hear back from Hellcatz report to you regarding the matter. If me posting my concerns in the chat for others to see that something potentially may be going on, whether knowingly or un-knowingly by you is wrong or toxic behavior, then to me that means you wanted me to contact you privately so others wouldn’t know. If that was wrong of me I humbly apologize.

You asked me to come mine at your pool when it was small and I left a coin that was more profitable to mine than Zen because I wanted to help a friend and support the Zen network through a rocky time. You have the full chat log and since you’ve injected yourself into this thread of me asking for a dev, please feel free to post the entire log so others can see and decide if my behavior was in fact “toxic” as you say.

I started this thread to seek the assistance of the devs in regards to finding out more information about the wallets included in the payout I posted. If you have any information or clarification regarding the payment I would be glad to hear it so we can put this matter to rest and move to securing the Zen blockchain and support this great product the devs are working hard to build.

Thanks,


#5

Looks like a normal payment to me, z-nomp sometimes get behind on payments


#6

Thanks for replying @aayanl

The part I have a question regarding is this wallet:

znjsAFKkAMsWohT8SVMvZVF4YPmCYvZqX2Z - 11.31270036

That wallet received a payout, but has never mined a second on the pool other than when I pointed my miner to that wallet for a few minutes to see the payout stats/history. So is this payout/wallet part of the Zen Foundation reward from the miners? If not, then who’s is it and how many other payments have they received from the pool without mining there?

Also here are a few other payouts from the pool:

http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/d845469d9573e20d67ee3addec1d2a0b25346c040d7296b4485cee8acef17e0c

http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/94ee862ad7ae813a4b5da6a2f68200388ed91dcf4050f65b92496290b9ce72e9

http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/8384f7c63db1a7c5e2bc870fa2bdbd19991ea4ac8f131ad9e7c41772d7174ab9

They all include and show the pools fee being payed out to the pool OPs wallet. If the above payout is a normal payout, why is it the only one that doesn’t contain an automatic payout for the pool fee?

Here is the pool payout pre questionable payout:
http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/9ab609c866bfedf04d0924ab16520a4c933433ae09869aa1668c7ac5a535c2f1

Here is the pool payout post questionable payout:
http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/995504c46b2ebc453003f4574f733ffcfc823c4b362eef0bf3fd6a559dc60a84

It seems to me if the pool was behind on payments, we would be able to find a tx where the “back fee’s” were paid out to the pool OP, but they are all for the same amount.

Again I state I hope this is just my lack of understanding Zen z-nomp and vs ZCash and the other coins I’ve mined since 2015.


#7

If I understand it, a payment was made to a wallet that was not mining on the pool correct? @aayanl

So how can a payment be sent from a pool to a miner who isn’t mining in the pool?


#8

it could be sending back to the pool’s wallet


#9

so was that a manual payment? and not a block reward? that is what were trying to figure out? either my lack of knowledge about it, or that is a manual generated payment… @aayanl


#10

It’s impossible to do manual payments with z-nomp


#11

Okay. So why would that block not have any fees removed from it, to miner that was not mining on the pool? @thesmokingman laid out multiple payments from the pool that had fees removed the fee for devs etc…
@aayanl


#12

Well, I wouldn’t know. I’m just going to take an innocent until proven guilty stance. If someone reports that they’ve been grossly underpaid, then something’s wrong. Otherwise, it looks fine to me


#13

I think that’s the point here. The pool paid a miner for finding a block, that apparently never mined according to stats. Which you have to mine for x minutes or hours to get a payout from what I understand.

Claims that miner found that block that nobody else was on but him due to the prev block being orphaned, no fees, not even to devs… I’m sure there are more short blocks out there that are short but the payout looks much difference.

It’s very sketchy to say the least. Which is why were wanting more clarity on this. @aayanl @hellcatz


#14

And when you say normal payment… normal to What? Someone sending Zen to each other? Or a pool style payout?

New to Zen but not to crypto… that does not appear to be a normal payout from a pool as fees would be subtracted, after fees removed there is 10.4 something to distribute.

I would like to know how a found block doesn’t have fees removed


#15

Combed a bit through the blockchain, znjsAFKkAMsWohT8SVMvZVF4YPmCYvZqX2Z was a pool change address because it processed a payment http://node1.zenchain.info:8886/tx/995504c46b2ebc453003f4574f733ffcfc823c4b362eef0bf3fd6a559dc60a84.

It spent transaction ba0ff8d0b3088aa003eed39d9740a47bf60c19e2f926e5dce6d2a73b43968f01 which is the one @thesmokingman is asking about


#16

also going to say that @ghost has not received or given any payments from/to the zen core team


#17

Also want to reiterate that @ghost hasn’t received funds from the core team. He’s been operating independently and been a valued member of the community.


#18

Thank you for the post @aayanl

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by “a pool change address because it processed a payment” when you’re not busy? Do you mean the znjsAFKkAMsWohT8SVMvZVF4YPmCYvZqX2Z wallet is the wallet “loose change” or “unclaimed Zen” is deposited to?

I’m still digging into my past payment history, but the below snaps is what initiated me looking into things to provide a bit of backstory for you.

Below is a segment of payouts that I captured when the credit system was active (red boxes) and when the credit system wasn’t active (blue box). Of course credit system, pool hashrate, difficulty and other variables play into it, but the variance is seen in the inconsistent payouts during and after the CS.

<img src="/uploads/default/original/1X/5734319d94a85c997cf34e5eb30ccd8528fcddf1.png"width=“555” height=“332”>

It also struck me as odd that I couldn’t accurately see my 2 week earnings.

The brown bar below is the payout started my digging, as you can see it looks odd lol. I have a little more hash than what this miner has, so I’ve been comparing our payments the past month and there have been a few times where his payout exceed mine during the same period of pool hash, difficulty and credit system.

Thank you for taking the time to explain things as that’s all I was asking. It was the response that I received that made me start to question if I might of struck a nerve because something was going on.


#19

is indeed where the extra unused zen went.


#20

There was no “mischief” between the pool-op or dev-team.

I can confirm that znjsAFKkAMsWohT8SVMvZVF4YPmCYvZqX2Z was change to back to the pool in that particular payment. This is normal as the pool was sending a payment of 11.31220899 from an input of 22.62491309 … creating the change address which was spent in another pool payment as pointed out by @aayanl

For the second mystery, payment for block round 135573 may seem unusual.

With my research, data shows a very rare event that happened in z-nomp.
This has to do when two miners happen to find the same block around the same time.

BitFire just happen to be lucky enough to run into this rare situation where two miners block at the same time (finding the same block; duplicates). Basically, one of the blocks are invalid and one is valid. The block round that passed the valid check happen to have only shares from one miner associated to it, as seen the the payment transaction.

In summary, a vary rare situation of two miners submitting the same block appears to have resulted in an unfair payment by z-nomp. As an avid supporter of zen & z-nomp, I will continue to investigate what happened as my contribution to the Zen community.

I want to thank @Ghost & @Blockops & @aayanl for their cooperation during my research.